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Raison d'être

TIAM IV: Guydiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Cockmongler

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10 minutes ago, Moby said:

My only problem with Tumblr shooting itself in both legs, is that I had to look and follow every artist I followed on whatever new side they settled.

 

Also this

 

tumblr_pj6h78Aay01xa6rpzo1_540.png

SEX NEGATIVITY REEEEEEE

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No one wants a site to "foster more constructive dialogue among our community members."  That phrase is largely meaningless anyway since "you can bitch about our policies and we'll tell you why you're wrong before we ban you" is technically a sort of constructive dialogue.

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I was talking about this with some coworkers today (we made it SFW), and the general consensus was "isn't tumblr like 70% porn? Are they killing themselves?"

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It looks like Tumblr is using an automated system to detect porn.  But like all modern algorithms it's just trained from data sets without any explicit instruction about what makes porn porn and so gives out a lot of false positives based on color.  Anything remotely flesh colored?  Obviously porn.  Post in gray scale?  This must be one of those hentai manga.

 

EDIT: Source: Random people from multiple websites which aren't Tumblr and who probably don't know what the hell they're talking about.

Edited by Gyokuyoutama

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20 hours ago, Gyokuyoutama said:

No one wants a site to "foster more constructive dialogue among our community members."  That phrase is largely meaningless anyway since "you can bitch about our policies and we'll tell you why you're wrong before we ban you" is technically a sort of constructive dialogue.

 

It's time for a conversation (on why I'm right and you're wrong).

 

19 hours ago, Expresate said:

I was talking about this with some coworkers today (we made it SFW), and the general consensus was "isn't tumblr like 70% porn? Are they killing themselves?"

 

In my mind tumblr has always meant porn and crazy people and bad design. Take away the porn and it's SPUFpo just about any other site on the web.

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22 minutes ago, Raison d'être said:

It's time for a conversation (on why I'm right and you're wrong).

Kind of unrelated but has anyone EVER heard someone say "It's time for a conversation" without the implied "(on why I'm right and you're wrong)?"

Edited by A 1970 Corvette

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Just now, A 1970 Corvette said:

Kind of unrelated but has anyone EVER heard someone say "It's time for a conversation" without the implied "(on why I'm right and you're wrong)?"

 

Probably not ever in that specific PR-speak, but even then the sentiment is probably only present in subjects neither party cares about. "Facts don't care about your feelings" is a popular Ben meme but the opposite "Feelings don't care about your facts" is much more true and much more relevant.

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Newgrounds has gotten so much traffic due to this that the site literally can't handle it.

 

What an age we live in.

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Pixiv is alright but damn navigating that site makes me feel like I'm wading through a jungle and I don't know where I'm going at all.

 

12 hours ago, Moby said:

Newgrounds, Twitter and Pixiv seem to be the most used.

 

Twitter? For artists? Why not just upload your fucking art as a 5 second Youtube video, be about the same. Well actually it'd be better because Youtube doesn't have infinite scrolling.

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I am always fascinated with how these kinds of completely fucktarded decisions manage to come to fruition from a giant company's hivemind. Most of the time its WotC business decisions but this tumblr thing is of the same category.

 

I mean everyone on the internet can see that this wouls cut their traffic in half on top of being impossible to filter for properly. And this idea isn't just one idiot with a big red "fuck it all up" button, this is entire meetingfulls of well paid and educated adults all unanimously approaching the density of a black hole. I guess it's for advertisement's sake? Is that really worth cutting your traffic in half for?

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3 hours ago, Raison d'être said:

Twitter? For artists? Why not just upload your fucking art as a 5 second Youtube video, be about the same. Well actually it'd be better because Youtube doesn't have infinite scrolling.

It's what all the hip dudes do, man.

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2 hours ago, Moby said:

Yeah, pretty much. It gets far worse though.

Extremist politics is probably the only thing less advertiser-friendly than porn, and suits know this. Good to see tumblr's going down the way they lived, pointing and sputtering at the 20 or so blogs getting deleted and being remade by the same 4chan trolls from the tumblr invasions.

 

22 minutes ago, A 1970 Corvette said:

It's what all the hip dudes do, man.

It's such a shit platform though, even in general. But for art it's especially bad.

Edited by Raison d'être

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Doesn't really matter, tons of artists are there, it's convinient mostly for sketches for followers. Some people are just lazy.

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1 hour ago, Raison d'être said:

Extremist politics is probably the only thing less advertiser-friendly than porn, and suits know this. Good to see tumblr's going down the way they lived, pointing and sputtering at the 20 or so blogs getting deleted and being remade by the same 4chan trolls from the tumblr invasions.

That doesn't really appear to be true though, at least, not in the US. Associating your brand with outright porn is always seen as a negative because of how the US views sex. Extremist politics, on the other hand, can be a positive, depending on the situation and current events. There's a reason that companies didn't start publicly distancing themselves from right wing extremism until someone died. Extremists are dangerous, but they're devoted. People who are devoted generate clicks and advertising revenue. Most social media platforms are quick to clamp down on nsfw or unmarked nsfw material if it gets posted, but extremists on both ends of the spectrum are usually given a free pass until a point where the potential lost revenue from those outraged outweighs the potential gained revenue from the devoted.

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15 minutes ago, LadyBernkastel said:

That doesn't really appear to be true though, at least, not in the US. Associating your brand with outright porn is always seen as a negative because of how the US views sex. Extremist politics, on the other hand, can be a positive, depending on the situation and current events. There's a reason that companies didn't start publicly distancing themselves from right wing extremism until someone died. Extremists are dangerous, but they're devoted. People who are devoted generate clicks and advertising revenue. Most social media platforms are quick to clamp down on nsfw or unmarked nsfw material if it gets posted, but extremists on both ends of the spectrum are usually given a free pass until a point where the potential lost revenue from those outraged outweighs the potential gained revenue from the devoted.

 

No Western company is going to view having Kikekiller1488's swastika gallery next to their product as a net positive, ever, under any circumstances. The whole thought of tumblr/Verison sitting down and saying "You know, porn is too much but politics and race war seems like a really good choice for our advertisers" is just insane. If you pulled a hundred executives into a room and told them their product could be associated with either pornography or nazism you would get 100 votes for porn. But even if it were the same, which it ain't, the potential gained revenue from the devoted nazis of tumblr (one hell of a phrase that is) is probably 1/1,000th at best of the potential revenue gained from the horny people of tumblr.

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25 minutes ago, Raison d'être said:

 

No Western company is going to view having Kikekiller1488's swastika gallery next to their product as a net positive, ever, under any circumstances. The whole thought of tumblr/Verison sitting down and saying "You know, porn is too much but politics and race war seems like a really good choice for our advertisers" is just insane. If you pulled a hundred executives into a room and told them their product could be associated with either pornography or nazism you would get 100 votes for porn. But even if it were the same, which it ain't, the potential gained revenue from the devoted nazis of tumblr (one hell of a phrase that is) is probably 1/1,000th at best of the potential revenue gained from the horny people of tumblr.

I would like to agree with you. But that was the point of Moby's post. They've been planning to make tumblr more advertiser friendly for months now, to the point of making an algorithm so strict that it flags the very post that announced the changes, but in that wasn't included a ban on extremist politics. We know that they didn't target left wing politics because Verizon was trying to cater to them. So imagine if included in the rules were "oh, and nazis are banned too." There still would have been the shitstorm over the porn ban, but I'd wager a guess that a lot of left wing slacktivists would have attempted to defend tumblr if that was what happened. But they didn't, and if this was a bid to make tumblr easier to monetize, a ban on right wing extremism should have been on the docket if their advertisers actually cared. It's pretty difficult to teach a computer to detect porn. It's a lot less difficult to teach a computer how to recognize words from a white nationalist glossary and build associations between them. They don't even have to be that thorough, since they're clearly not bothered by innocent posts getting caught in the crossfire.

Before 2016, I probably would have agreed with you. It sounds like it should be true. But that's not how things play out in reality. Every social media service quietly hosts extremists of all political agendas, and then when one of them acts out, the company will loudly proclaim that it's distancing itself from those people before quietly going back to the status quo once the social fervor dies down.

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8 minutes ago, LadyBernkastel said:

I would like to agree with you. But that was the point of Moby's post. They've been planning to make tumblr more advertiser friendly for months now, to the point of making an algorithm so strict that it flags the very post that announced the changes, but in that wasn't included a ban on extremist politics. We know that they didn't target left wing politics because Verizon was trying to cater to them. So imagine if included in the rules were "oh, and nazis are banned too." There still would have been the shitstorm over the porn ban, but I'd wager a guess that a lot of left wing slacktivists would have attempted to defend tumblr if that was what happened. But they didn't, and if this was a bid to make tumblr easier to monetize, a ban on right wing extremism should have been on the docket if their advertisers actually cared. It's pretty difficult to teach a computer to detect porn. It's a lot less difficult to teach a computer how to recognize words from a white nationalist glossary and build associations between them. They don't even have to be that thorough, since they're clearly not bothered by innocent posts getting caught in the crossfire.

Before 2016, I probably would have agreed with you. It sounds like it should be true. But that's not how things play out in reality. Every social media service quietly hosts extremists of all political agendas, and then when one of them acts out, the company will loudly proclaim that it's distancing itself from those people before quietly going back to the status quo once the social fervor dies down.

 

I'm still not convinced extremists of either stripe are that big of an advertising market, at least not big enough to risk alienating moderates. But at the end of the day tumblr's the one with the data (I mean I hope they collected data on this), so we'll have to wait and see whether or not they took the right path.

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3 hours ago, LadyBernkastel said:

That doesn't really appear to be true though, at least, not in the US. Associating your brand with outright porn is always seen as a negative because of how the US views sex. Extremist politics, on the other hand, can be a positive, depending on the situation and current events. There's a reason that companies didn't start publicly distancing themselves from right wing extremism until someone died. Extremists are dangerous, but they're devoted. People who are devoted generate clicks and advertising revenue. Most social media platforms are quick to clamp down on nsfw or unmarked nsfw material if it gets posted, but extremists on both ends of the spectrum are usually given a free pass until a point where the potential lost revenue from those outraged outweighs the potential gained revenue from the devoted.

There was a forum that I used to frequent that specifically cultivated political flamewars, all for clicks.  A former mod actually leaked internal policies on a different site. The highest rank of mods were required to have at least three accounts (the "official" account, and two accounts that would take opposing sides in arguments).  Whenever a discussion settled down it was the duty of a mod to say something inflammatory to get lots of responses.  When someone actually made good points and got people to agree with each other, that poster would be banned.  (Just to be cheeky, the two most common reasons for bans were "possession of alt accounts" and "trying to incite a flamewar").

 

Apparently the model worked well enough for them to stay in business, because they got a lot of advertising revenue.

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^that is fucking fascinating

 

In other news I slipped with my bike yesterday and chipped a piece of bone in my wrist. I have to wear a cast for two weeks which is an absolute nightmare seeing that I'm right in the middle of my phd

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