NinjaWombatWithATaco

most of the Catholic Church? are you sure?and as I said, I have a problem with the reliability of those methods because in the past, there has been false evidence supporting evolution. I wouldn't say I'm sticking my fingers in my ears and ignoring it, I'm trying to address the points as they come up.

I think the Church acknowledges evolution as a theory. We really don't know how the God started the world. As someone posted (was it scamp? I'll check EDIT: yeah it was scamp) God could have started the process of evolution. Do I think God could have created the world in 7 days? Yes, I believe in an all powerful God, he could have created it in 20 seconds. Does that mean I don't think he could have just started the process of evolution? No, he could have done that as well. -Wait, are we trying to re-rail the thread?Uh...hotwheels...I had plenty of the cars, I just never had those cool mats with city streets and buildings and stuff painted on for the cars to chill on :(

Well, if nothing else, I'd say we learned that SPUFlings can actually have an argument in a reasonable manner, without resulting to trolling and rage....ok, except for Gigolo, but whatever, I'm not asking for a miracle :troll:Anyway, I'm going to bed, I'm going to once again do my research (ow, mah head is not used to this reading) and see if I can address the points that y'all raised up

Once again, I have a problem with the reliability of those methods, I'll try to read into what Raison posted on the subject. My brain started hurting as I read this, not sure if good thing about my IQ levels >.>As I told Raison, I'm going to look more into these dating methodsNow about the design on humans, you have to remember that we don't know everything there is to know about the human body. Not everyone thinks the appendix is just a useless organ, some of them think it both help in manufacturing hormones in fetal development as well as functioning to "train" the immune system, exposing the body to antigens so that it can produce antibodies

But these examples such as the similarities of bone structure could be just because God designed them that way, as they worked the best that way. I'm going to have to look more into C-14 and those other links (gah, I'm going to have to read a lot won't I :S)

Could you link me to some of the species so I can see which ones you're talking about? So we're Superman? I'm ok with this Except that we don't believe that dinosaurs lived that long ago. I haven't seen any christian's deny the existence of dinosaurs either. (not saying there aren't some christian's out there like that, who knows)

No I would not be fine with that happening. There, question answered, now how was it relevant? Where did you get that quotation? I already quoted it as it was in the Catholic Bible. Maybe you were getting it from a protestant Bible. Yes there are different versions of the Bible, the protestants have been editing the Bible since the Protestant Revolution so that it conforms to their beliefs. I don't remember seeing it anywhere in the Bible that a woman would get punished for being raped.

But if that happens, there must be what Darwin called "intermediate links" SOMEWHERE. But where? Quote from Darwin: "Geological research, though it has added numerous species to existing and extinct genera, and has made the intervals between some few groups less wide than they otherwise would have been, yet has done scarcely anything in breaking the distinction between species, by connecting them together by numerous, fine, intermediate varieties; and this not having been affected, is probably the gravest and most obvious of all the many objections which can be raised against my views." (The Origin of Species, 6th ed, 1962, Collier Books, NY, p.462.) OK, fine, we've had time to find them, right? Here's quote from Dr. David Raup, from Field Museum Bulletin on January 1979 when he was the curator of the Chicago Field Museum of Natural History. "Well, we are now about 120 years after Darwin, and knowledge of the fossil record has been greatly expanded...ironically, we have even fewer examples of evolutionary transition than we had in Darwin's time. By this I mean that some of the classic cases of Darwinian change in the fossil record, such as the evolution of the horse in North America, have had to be discarded or modified as the result of more detailed information." I believe c-14 has in fact been used in this manner. But what are the other more advanced ways?

What? Where did I say that? I just pointed out that you changed the quote to contain rape, when in fact it didn't. What you just said is not in the bible. Well, it's kinda of harsh to dismiss it on the sole fact of it being a christian website. Would you dismiss PC gamer saying things like "PC gaming is most definetly not dead, and here's why" just because they are a magazine dependent on pc gaming? <dat weak analogy> And as I pointed out, when you're a creationist scientist, it's hard to find people to publish your stuff.

what do you mean, by a real source? that's not a real source?OK, first off, let me correct those quotes for ya.Deuteronomy 22:28-29: "If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, who is not espoused, and taking her, lie with her, and the matter come to judgment: He that lay with her shall giver to the father of the maid fifty sicles of silver, and shall have her to wife, because he hath humbled her: he may not put her away all the days of his life."That is fornication, NOT rape, it doesn't mention anywhere that it was not a mutual act. Deuteronomy 22.20.21: " But if what he charged her with be true, and virginity be not found in the damsel: They shall cast her out of the doors of her father's house, and the men of the city shall stone her to death, and she shall die: because she hath done a wicked thing in Israel, to play the whore in her father's house: and thou shalt take away the evil out of the midst of thee."those are the 2 quotes in full.And creationism isn't a religion. Just because it's a part of religion doesn't mean it's a religion on it's own ._.

yeah sure, use THAT picture

Here's a link on carbon dating, more to come later.http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/nab/does-c14-disprove-the-bible Actually, if I remember correctly, parts of the Koran come from different authors. I could be totally wrong on that though. Creationism isn't a religion <NITPICKING>also, maybe the dinosaurs pissed off Noah :P

They are flawed because as Gold Standard said, they aren't accurate, However, unlike how Gold Standard says, they're not accurate enough. I'LL GET BACK TO THIS, I'M NOT JUST DODGING THIS QUESTION, I NEED TO GRAB MY SOURCES capsYes, the Bible wasn't written by God, however, it was inspired by God. How do you figure that the "stories" in it aren't true? A lot of them are historical facts and have contempory histories to back them up. sorry D:

Ok, well, the Bible doesn't say nothing ever changes. And there's a difference between macro evolution and micro evolution. Finches with different beaks? Different breeds of dogs? Yeah, fine. Fish turning into my cat? Uh... I don't know what a Cryptozoologist is D: and unlike all the other guys you mentioned, we have logical arguments to back ourselves up with. Though we don't have that hair...maybe we should work on that...I need that hair, I could do all kinds of things in life if I had that hair...*train of thought jumps the tracks* Maybe if I were an idiot. I don't see how if I believe in creationism, I must believe that you can make gold out of water. The belief that there is an all powerful God is actually founded on logical reasoning. Actually, a lot of us dispute the "proof" that the earth has been around for billions of years. The methods that they have for testing that are flawed and unpredictable in many ways. "Everything in the Bible is true, but it didn't necessarily happen." What? The Bible's purpose is to teach salvation, but some people make it a scientific treatise. Is that what he's saying, cuz I agree with that. When the Bible describes something, it describes by appearence

I absolutely believe that it's hard to be famous if you don't believe in evolution. You will be ridiculed about your beliefs (Catholics know a lot about that) and belittled by your peers, people will refuse to publish your works, all kinds of obstacles. Does that make our point any less valid? Well, no. Also, how does being an advocate of intelligent design make him any less credible? I don't believe that intelligent design is masquerading as science, and I don't think they're trying to do away with the idea of the "Big Guy" either. If anything, it's another name for creationism. How does that make him uncredible? (incredible? wat?) I didn't give you that link to see who has the biggest list, but because you said that there was NOT ONE credible supporter of creationism. Can you say that none of them are credible?Again, having more people on your side doesn't make you right, by that logic, twighlight would be the best thing on earth since Gaben invented hats :P

yeah, granted, but I thought he raised some good points, when I get some time, I'll get you some biologists :PCurious though, why is he not credible?EDIT: after 3 seconds of googling, I also found thishttp://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/bios/

I'll do some more research, but I think the julian calender still had a leap year (but it still got derailed cuz of something else, can't remember what) Using the Julian and the hebrew calendar as references, I think some historians have in fact pinpointed the date of the Passion, though I think there is some confusion somewhere over a 1 day difference sited in 2 gospels ( I think St. John's and St. Mathew's) I can't remember exactly, like I said, I'll have to do some more research

Alright, I'm awake @_@Raison, I'm going to continue digging up some names for you, but for now, I thought you might be interested in Dr. David Berlinski. by his own admission, he is not a christian, or a fundementalist, and yet he brings up a lot of points against Darwinism. You might find these 2 little series of videos interesting. Here's the link to the first video of each series, they're pretty short. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PpeOD593lCc&feature=related

I need to scram to bed, I haven't got much sleep the last 2 nights, but I'll be back tomorrow and see if I can address any additional points that may have come up (including the ones in your latest post Alex)Raison, I'll see if I can dig up those biologists. Also, my internet went derptastic on me so that's why there's double posts, I'm trying to clean those up :P

I love it when I can have a nice rational argument online without rage and turdbags throwing their internet weight around :') Here, take this rep, his name is Clancy. I don't want to throw anybody into a panic, but I think Gigolo is being sarcastic. What do you mean by science? Do you mean the big bang theory? Evolution science as a whole?

oook....I'm going to go ahead and break one of my SUPA 1337 INTERWEBZ ROOLZ you know, the "Don't argue about religion/politics, it will end badly"Feel free to flame me, I'm a tough kid, I can take it...*grabs security blanket*...try to make it relatively painless....please?Judging from what I've seen on this forum, I'm probably the worst nightmare of the majority of the people on this forum, but I feel like I should stick up a bit for my side, since it seems to be getting zero support right now. oh gosh this is a bad ideaLet me point out first, that I'm a Catholic. So I'll start with Alex's post about Fridays. Unlike the protestants, we do not "focus only on the Bible, and discount anything else as wrong". That is the protestant false doctrine "Sola Scriptura". We believe in the 2 modes of receiving God's Truths: The Bible, yes, but also Sacred Tradition. So the Church's Magesterium (the teaching authority of the Church) has in fact taught doctrines that are not found in the Bible. Sound weird? Well no, the Bible itself says: "There are, however, many other things that Jesus did; but if every one of these should be written, not even the world itself, I think, could hold the books that would have to be written" (John 21:25Thus, even though rules like abstinence from meat on fridays aren't found in the Bible, they are still doctrines of the Church. We commemorate Fridays because Our Lord gave up His life for us on a Friday. Why do you find a logical fallacy with a physics major believing in Creationism?as to Rammite's post, Catholicism isn't a weapon, either against despair, or to reach some malicious goal. It's what we genuinely believe to be the one true religion, instituted by our Creator, that will ultimately unite us with Him. Have Catholics done evil/stupid/whatever stuff in the past? Yes, of course, we're only human. But to judge our religion as a whole on the actions of a few (not saying that's you, but a lot of people do that) is ridiculous. I just felt I had to post this, because I've seen several people on this forum say some things bashing Catholicism and I feel bad letting them just get away with it. I'm not trying to pick a fight, or troll, and I'm open to debating. I'll try to address any points that you bring up, and I'll try to stay polite I just hate seeing a lot of the more common catholic bashing statements pop up over and over again online. Maybe we can have a politics/religion subforum where Achilles and I can stay in a state of perpetual war, since I think he's basically my polar opposite in everything politics/religion :Pok, so that's me painting a bullseye on my forehead, come at me bros :\oh, and sorry for potentially derailing your thread, cell :/EDIT: wow, I apparently suck at composing coherent posts, sorry about that, I'll try to fix it up a bit.

I would also like to put it on the record that I'm going to be that kind of annoying turd bag that will turn around when I inevitably win this raffle, sell the hat for a massive profit, buy half of microsoft, gloat about how rich I am, and then get murdered by my nephews.

my bald engie has assured my imminent victoryyou might as well just hand over the hat now, it'll spare you all some tension

don't they already do tha-*STAB*

...I'd pay the ugandans to go attack ponies, is that bad? D: You act like patriotism is a bad thing per se. Sure, there are a lot of people that have the wrong idea of patriotism, and are elitist about their countries, but true patriotism is not a bad thing, it's a good thing. It's not bad to be proud of your country, and to want it to be great. Yankees can't handle our swag :Pand californians aren't real southerners...they're...well...not really sure what they are, california is kinda...out there on it's own. ...SANTA'S NOT REAL!??!?! MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM DUM DUM DUUUUUM!!