Razputin

@paero one thing I disgree with of what you said is that smash players are reluctant to change, because I think that goes for all comp communities. The changes from melee to smash 4 are pretty comparable to the criticisms SFV is getting of being too dumbed down, and I think those are valid complaints if you've put a lot of time into learning the game
 
@d4mo what are you talking about he in no way says players should not get rewarded for their skills. Also if you can't handle banter at a competitive event you should go live in a soundproof padded hamsterball because you're not getting far in life

Actually agree with you there, hadn't thought about it like that to be honest. I don't know the specific changes between Melee and Smash 4 though. Like Scoots points out though it is something which people in all games adapt to, and while you're right in saying that the SF communities reaction to the changes in SFV are evidence of them being reluctant to change in the same way, I think the difference is that the changes from SFIV to SFV are a change in direction of a series, whereas the changes made in Project M are more akin to a balance patch (you could argue though that because it's a mod of a separate game that it is more akin to a change in a series' direction as opposed to a balance patch, despite still being based on Melee. I don't think I'd argue with you on that point because I think then it's simply that we subjectively see the differences, differently)
 
I don't outright hate E-Sports. Like I said in my post I like the idea that the top players can be paid very highly for their skill, what I dislike is the concept of singular large organizations having control over a games competitive scene and pushing for it to be 'E-Sports', like Capcom has done with Street Fighter V. Saying that all I want to see if blowups and I think if that's how you've understood it then I must have worded it wrong. I use those as an example of the contrast between 'Competetive Gaming' typically found in smaller games and Fighting Games, and 'E-Sports'. The fact that the players have the ability to do so is something which I think is a result of the scene not being controlled by a single company. Like I said, if someone does something like that in League they will get fined, and the example I have with 2GD being removed from all future (major) Dota 2 events because of a single decision by Valve based on one thing he did is something that completely put me off playing Dota, and put me off the idea of E-Sports in general.
 
A recent controversy in SFV was people like Nuckledu and Punk teabagging mid match, when their opponent was stunned but was on very low health (effectively BMing when their win was guaranteed). It was funny at first but eventually happened so much that it became annoying and obnoxious, and the community would turn on these guys who the rest of the time were liked by the majority of fans because it was simply unnecessary BM.
 
I don't want to see these blowups at each and every opportunity, but I do want the players to be in an environment where they can do it and create these memorable moments in the right situations. I think your statement that "Losing is already bad enough" sounds like you're speaking from a personal perspective. The fact is that competitive Fighting Game players lose a LOT, no matter how good they are, that's how they learn, and one of the key pieces of advice given to new people picking up a fighting game is to "stop caring about wins or losses". For the majority of dedicated players losing isn't a bad thing (unless in a extremely high level tournament situation, in which case it's only bad because you lost out on the prize pool) losing is a necessity and it's what helps you get better. I think that with a company holding the control over a comp scene then there will obviously be the motivation on their part to make it seem as friendly and accessible as possible and subsequently to please sponsors and investors. The FGC describe these BM moments as Thuggery but you can call it whatever you want. But I'm of the opinion that these moments are evidence of a scene who love their game and are freely able to express their emotions among others who love the game, without this sword of Democles in the form of a larger company organizing them over their head. The fact is that the FGC is a mature scene, and that's what keeps the fans dedicated, not some "haha wow funny man shouting" level interest that you suggest is all I have.
 
I'll try and sum up my original post to clear things up:
I don't like Smash (I put this bit in simply to add context, but to also show that while I'm not a Smash player or even a fan of the scene, that I respect what they're doing and I understand that my own opinion won't stop people from liking the game and playing it competitively, and I'm fine with that) I think that if Nintendo want to support a competitive scene then it only seems right to support There's a lot of things which may put Nintendo off supporting Smash, and to me it feels wrong to not recognize the concerns that they have especially when they have stated that Smash is not intended to be played competitively I do think it's wrong for Nintendo to have an aim to create a competitive scene around games which are yet to be released And here's the most important bit and the only thing I think you should really consider, everything else is simply my subjective view and I don't think you're wrong for disagreeing with it.
      5. A 'good' competitive scene is not directly tied to the amount of money or support that a company puts into it
 
The reason I wrote my initial post is because I think that there's an automatic view by many that a games competitive scene is good if it's big, professional, and there's a lot of money (look at how Painkiller had a collosal $1m prize pool back when E-Sports simply weren't a thing at all. It didn't make the game good, it just gave one lucky guy a big £500k payday and then the game died because there was no fan-investment, only corporate) and here's why I made my initial post.
 
Fans of Capcom fighting games and Street Fighter specifically, such as myself, are right in the middle of Capcom doing to their games exactly what Smash players want Nintendo to do to Smash. I picked up Street Fighter 4, and after getting over the learning curve associated with learning my first fighting game I began to love the game, and everything about it, especially the competitive scene. I found this entire comp scene which I had never experienced before. The suits and ties, the panels, the interviews were all gone in favour of just loads of people playing a game and having fun. There are two moments which I specifically attribute to my love for it. Firstly watching Xian win the first ever Capcom Pro Tour (which looking back was the beginning of the E-Sports-ification of Street Fighter) with Gen, a character who was notoriously hard and who in the vast roster of Ultra Street Fighter 4 was good, but wasn't as good as the Evil Ryu's, Kens, Yun's and Cammy's who were all S+ tier. The second moment spans from when I picked up the game at the release of Ultra, all the way to the final SF4 tournament at EVO in 2015. Gamerbee was a player who was known as Mr Second Place. He did so well in so many tournaments (with Yang, a very unpopular character) but could never snatch first place. At the release of Ultra, Elena (a character who was added in Ultra) was generally considered to be low-tier. This was a death sentence for her in many cases, as the roster was 44 characters large so nobody thought she would be able to contend with the best characters. Gamerbee picked her up and launched her from position 32 of 44, to position 11. He player her so well that people recognized that she had been written off too early, and a commentator at EVO 2015 said that in order to be a good player you had to have your main character, and then you had to have Elena. I watched Gamerbee fight his way through the losers bracket, and end up in the grand finals against Momochi, a player who was viewed by many as simply a Japanese robot who played the game so perfectly and calmly that he was near impossible to beat. Gamerbee took Momochi right to his limit, and when Momochi's stick broke half way through a game, the rules stated that Gamerbee could take that round (which would have given him an extra game in his favour in the best of 5 they were fighting). Gamerbee refused, because he wanted to win 'legit'. The tournament ended with Momochi winning the final SF4 tournament that would be run at EVO, effectively leaving him to be recognized as the best player of SF4 ever.
 
Those are the two moments which secured me as a fan of SF4, and they made me hyped beyond belief for Street Fighter V.
 
I defended that game so much at release. I couldn't comprehend that it could be a bad game because I didn't WANT it to be a bad game. But frankly it was an insult to SF4. Little to no single player content (something I dont personally care about at all, but a criticism nonetheless), completely fucked netcode which made it impossible to know whether you won because you played better, or because on the other players end your character was teleporting around the screen and was impossible to attack or defend against, and finally a much simpler combo system than SF4, which made optimal combos so easy to execute that it simply wasn't impressive to watch.
 
That combo simplification is the biggest problem many have with SFV, and it's a result of Capcom wanting the game to be more accessible to a casual player. This appeal to casual players is something Capcom wanted (and still want) because the best thing that can happen in Capcoms opinion is that SFV can rake them in money.
 
That's why you should at least be wary of Nintendo intervening in Smash. Support from a company can come at the expense of the players enjoyment. Now, SFV players like Daigo, Infiltration and Gamerbee OPENLY admit to not liking SFV, but still play it simply because the money put in by Capcom can't be ignored by them, because who would want to turn down some easy money.
 
If you wanna play Smash play Smash man, go for it, have fun. But just know that MY community is going through the negatives of what 'E-Sportsification' can do to a series that I loved, and despite me not liking Smash I wouldn't want the Smash community to have to go through the same thing due to Nintendo.

Don't get me wrong Im excited for the new zelda but "ä map 10x as big as Skyrim's" just means absolutely nothing. As Alex said, it could just be pretty much empty

@paero one thing I disgree with of what you said is that smash players are reluctant to change, because I think that goes for all comp communities. The changes from melee to smash 4 are pretty comparable to the criticisms SFV is getting of being too dumbed down, and I think those are valid complaints if you've put a lot of time into learning the game
 
@d4mo what are you talking about he in no way says players should not get rewarded for their skills. Also if you can't handle banter at a competitive event you should go live in a soundproof padded hamsterball because you're not getting far in life

I much prefer datcord.

That's because arms and splatoon were designes with competitivity in mind. Smash is a party game that people play competitively, and all the power to them but that isn't in nintendo's design doc. You also can't really expect nintendo to show support for a 15 year old game of which the meta is built around utilizing bugged mechanics that people need broken controllers for to play on a high level

qt

Bad cards aren't made for standard, banned cards are made for standard

PRIME 4
 
PRIME 4
 
PRIME 4
 
P R I M E 4
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qt

New Metroid Prime or fuck off

Fixed

fuck bears

As long as you're not actively promoting violence against a group of people you can say basically whatever you want in here

What Kraszu said, bumping an 8 month old post just to call someone names is flaming

Fixed

Fixed

I don't know what forums you were member of previously, but responding to few months old post with nothing to add to the thread is not very welcome behavior. Ignoring most of the post and just saying "this is bullshit, so rest of it must also be so", is also rude. If you want to discuss something, please do, but if you don't, just ignore the post, instead of saying that post is not worthy to being responded to.
Please, keep your responses up to a higher standard, no matter what opinions of other posters are, it's not a youtube comment section.

Rep this every time you try to go to SPUF and get redirected.

pls do not bully TF2 players, we're already being bullied by valve